Ze Frank: Creative InspirationsIntroduction| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:06 | Hi! I am Ze Frank and over the last couple of
years I have done a variety of things on the web.
| | 00:11 | There was all of a sudden this idea
that programs like Flash could do some of
| | 00:16 | the jobs the programmers were doing.
| | 00:19 | I have brought you the Earth Sandwich,
the Facebook Me Equals You project,
| | 00:22 | "The Chillout Song."
| | 00:25 | What are other things that I have done?
| | 00:27 | "How To Dance Properly" is one of the
first breakout things, which I still keep
| | 00:32 | up on the site for the fun of it.
| | 00:34 | And the toys that were out there, or
the tools that were out there, facilitated
| | 00:37 | people who were good at drawing, but
I wanted to make something that actually
| | 00:40 | facilitated people who were bad at drawing.
| | 00:42 | Can you make something super simple and fun?
| | 00:44 | And this bug toy is really, really
viscerally fun, to kind of get all
| | 00:48 | these limbs in there.
| | 00:49 | And I have been working with
audiences in a number of different
| | 00:52 | participatory ways.
| | 00:53 | Color Wars became conceptually this idea of
a completely liberated Internet live game.
| | 00:59 | You can all of a sudden find that
lots of people out there respond to that
| | 01:04 | very, very small gesture and want to share it,
want to talk about it, want to even say "me too."
| | 01:09 | And over the last couple of days I have
been interviewed and I have responded in
| | 01:13 | a way that sounds like
I know what I am talking about.
| | 01:16 | Hopefully you will join me.
| | 01:18 | (Music plays.)
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Starting out| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | I kind of I think early on was pushed
towards drawing and creative endeavors, so
| | 00:15 | by the time that I landed in high school
I strongly identified myself with art, and
| | 00:20 | that was the thing that I was good at.
| | 00:22 | And spent at an incredible amount of
time in the art room in the morning.
| | 00:27 | And that's really where I probably
struggled with the idea of who I was and
| | 00:39 | what I guess I was supposed to do
the most... was in arriving at school early
| | 00:44 | and just being incredibly
dazed after hours of drawing.
| | 00:52 | And anyone that's really gotten into
a creative task probably knows the feeling
| | 01:00 | of not remembering a thing for the last
two hours, sound disappearing and time
| | 01:07 | kind of melting away, and then you
sort of like wake up out of it and very,
| | 01:10 | very discombobulated.
| | 01:12 | I don't know why I selected Brown.
| | 01:15 | It really-- the guidance counselor
program at my school, I mean, nobody really
| | 01:20 | got accepted to Ivy
League schools from my school.
| | 01:24 | I kind of like picked Brown the same
way that one might pick a candy that you
| | 01:31 | weren't familiar with out of a bowl.
| | 01:33 | Like you sort of look at the wrapper
and you kind of imagine what's inside, but
| | 01:37 | you don't have much of a sense of what it is.
| | 01:42 | I went in with the idea that I was
going to do something liberal artsy.
| | 01:49 | I took some classics classes to see
if that worked, religious studies, some
| | 01:54 | philosophy, and I was just completely
lost for the first year and a little bit.
| | 01:59 | And that's when I took this
neuroscience class and just absolutely fell in love
| | 02:05 | with the fact that there were
tests that had right answers.
| | 02:09 | I mean it was just so awesome to me
that you could get 100% on something.
| | 02:16 | I mean, I was battling
against so many different winds.
| | 02:20 | Trying to get inside of the head of the
professor, trying to insert myself into
| | 02:25 | this incredible highway-like
stream of culture and history.
| | 02:30 | In neuroscience it was like the answer
was either in the textbook or it had been
| | 02:34 | said in class, and it was up to you to
try to figure out how to memorize the
| | 02:38 | stuff by organizing it
in categories and systems.
| | 02:41 | I studied neuroscience all through
undergrad and graduated with a degree, a B.Sc.
| | 02:50 | in Neuroscience, and then I continued
to work in that lab for another three
| | 02:54 | quarters of the year or sp
| | 02:55 | on my way-- at the time the idea
was that I was just going to transition
| | 03:00 | right into a PhD program there.
| | 03:02 | The work that I was doing, I was
finishing up a paper that would later be
| | 03:06 | published on learning and
memory in the visual cortex in rats.
| | 03:11 | Even though there were really pretty
great people that I was in the lab with,
| | 03:18 | it didn't stand a chance when the band
I was in, the two other guys asked--
| | 03:26 | We kind of decided that maybe we would
make a run for it and move to New York City.
| | 03:31 | So that's kind of when I jettisoned.
| | 03:32 | And I think the things that you major in,
in college or the things that you have
| | 03:37 | sort of latched onto early always hold
a special place and it's something that
| | 03:42 | you can return to and feel like you
have spent a little bit of time there.
| | 03:46 | I have definitely spoken at a couple
of places, given talks to different
| | 03:50 | audiences, where I have
seen that pop up in the bio.
| | 03:54 | It's sort of like the organizers are
kind of psyched to suggest that there's
| | 04:00 | a link between the
neuroscience and the rest of the work I do.
| | 04:03 | As if this has been like a calculated effort
to mind-read in the 21st century sort of way.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Embracing digital media| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | I got my first computer well after
college and just tried to teach myself how to
| | 00:14 | illustrate and then got a
gig as an illustrator for this...
| | 00:20 | It was a web focused advertising
company, and they asked me if I knew Flash.
| | 00:26 | But I think at that point it
was Flash 3 had just come out.
| | 00:30 | And I was like, "absolutely, I know
Flash," and I like stole a copy from work
| | 00:33 | and like tried to teach
myself over the next few days.
| | 00:38 | So then it was during the huge boom
and people were getting hired like crazy
| | 00:44 | and there was a lot of money flying
around and everybody wanted some kind of a
| | 00:49 | web site at that point.
| | 00:50 | I got hired as a designer and as the
company grew, I think within just a few months
| | 00:56 | I became art director there, which was
just absolutely ludicrous given my skill set.
| | 01:00 | But I just kind of-- I was constantly
trying to learn, as quickly as I could,
| | 01:07 | to catch up with design generally,
but illustration and then animation.
| | 01:14 | At that point, it was a pretty strong
division, because designers just had no
| | 01:18 | knowledge of code whatsoever or the
processes by which you would construct
| | 01:23 | something programmatically.
| | 01:27 | The coder certainly had no
desire to sort of fiddle with design.
| | 01:34 | And so some of the training that I had
gotten in computer science, which was
| | 01:40 | fairly limited, definitely allowed
me in some way to act a little bit as a
| | 01:45 | bridge between the two departments.
Which was really fun, because there was all
| | 01:49 | of a sudden this idea that programs
like Flash could do some of the jobs that
| | 02:00 | the programmers were doing, at least
in a sort of limited way, and that they
| | 02:04 | could be infused with--
These websites could be infused with a lot
| | 02:07 | of like exciting little doodads.
| | 02:09 | We made lots of the kinds of sites
that we probably would make fun of today,
| | 02:15 | that took 30 seconds to get past
the intro, and with no skip button.
| | 02:21 | It was like, wow, check this out!
| | 02:25 | And every little piece moved.
| | 02:27 | But it was pretty fun and we
had a lot of leeway to do that.
| | 02:32 | That's where I really got into
programming for the web and creating these kind
| | 02:39 | of like stripped-down,
optimized little toys and widgets.
| | 02:44 | I would try to create projects for
something that I was trying to learn.
| | 02:51 | So in this case, I had been trying
to compress video, because there were
| | 02:59 | bandwidth limitations at the time.
| | 03:00 | It was a really basic thing.
| | 03:03 | I just filmed a sequence, converted it
to still images, lowered the frame rate,
| | 03:07 | and then compressed the hell out of the JPEGs.
| | 03:10 | Seems very obvious but
nobody was really doing it.
| | 03:13 | And the way that I kind of had
motivated myself for that particular experiment
| | 03:19 | was as an invitation to a birthday party
that I was throwing, and that was this
| | 03:26 | thing called "How To Dance Properly,"
which became a viral kind of hit and that
| | 03:31 | really just honed me towards
spending all of my time on the web.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Creating digital toys| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | Over the years I have slowed down on
the amount of stuff that I put out.
| | 00:12 | The more recent things that I have done
tend to be a little bit more aggressive.
| | 00:17 | They are a little larger.
| | 00:20 | They have tended towards the conceptual.
| | 00:22 | But I do kind of return to these
little tiny simple toys over and over again.
| | 00:30 | In the beginning-- Not in the beginning,
but when Flash 4 came out and Flash 5,
| | 00:37 | there was a period of time where I was
sort of trying to figure out new ways of
| | 00:43 | testing out the potential for these
new features that came out, and the live
| | 00:47 | microphone really has always interested me.
| | 00:52 | So I tried a whole series of these.
| | 00:54 | I really like this one.
| | 00:56 | This one is called Meditation Flowers.
| | 00:58 | Aaaaaaaa. (Hums into microphone.)
| | 01:08 | I think it's a fun but kind
of throwaway implementation.
| | 01:13 | But I actually received a note from
a school for kids that have a variety of
| | 01:20 | disabilities in Australia, where kids
that can't move any limb to participate
| | 01:30 | in a lot of the tools, the art tools
that are out there, are using this tool as
| | 01:35 | a way to create art and things like that.
| | 01:38 | And that's incredibly inspiring for me
and makes me want to go back in and try
| | 01:41 | to think about all these implementations.
| | 01:44 | Obviously there are people that are
working on these kinds of problems, but
| | 01:49 | for me and the work that I do, it's
wonderful to have that kind of feedback.
| | 01:55 | I will show you the Voice Drawing application.
| | 02:02 | Ooooooooo. (Hums into microphone.)
| | 02:21 | I actually kind of got okay
at drawing with this thing.
| | 02:24 | So this is like a face that I drew with it.
| | 02:28 | Quickly I found that a lot of the toys
that were out there or the tools that
| | 02:33 | were out there facilitated
people who were good at drawing.
| | 02:35 | But I wanted to make something that
actually facilitated people who were bad at
| | 02:39 | drawing, who didn't feel
like they were creative people.
| | 02:41 | So the Scribbler came out of that.
| | 02:43 | The original version is still online.
| | 02:45 | There is an iPhone app that's
actually coming out that's a little bit more
| | 02:49 | updated and there's actually a
version of this where you can create
| | 02:53 | animations as well.
| | 02:55 | So you can take a kind of a crappy
drawing and turn it into a little postwar
| | 03:00 | etching in front of your eyes.
| | 03:04 | And kind of pause it and change the settings.
| | 03:08 | Make it more scribbly, transparent.
| | 03:18 | There has actually been tens of
thousands of images that have been submitted
| | 03:25 | over time, and some of them
are less successful than others.
| | 03:33 | This was another one of the
first things that I created.
| | 03:35 | And this was just like getting-- I just
became really super fascinated with like
| | 03:40 | just the tactile experience of, can
you make something super simple and fun?
| | 03:45 | And this is actually, this bug toy, is
really, really viscerally fun to kind of
| | 03:50 | get all these limbs in there,
and kids really love this toy.
| | 03:54 | And the thing is for me at the time,
the math to figure out the appropriate
| | 04:00 | angles for these joints was actually
kind of a killer for me and took me a while
| | 04:05 | to like figure it out, and that
was sort of the fun challenge.
| | 04:09 | And actually with a lot of the things
on the site, there is a kind of hidden
| | 04:15 | layer behind it, which is the
reason that I got into these particular
| | 04:22 | predicaments almost I would say.
| | 04:24 | For example, the Atheist game, I kind
of had decided I think in like Flash 5
| | 04:31 | that I should really start programming
games, because games were really coming
| | 04:36 | online and it looked like maybe
there was a revenue model for them.
| | 04:38 | And I was like well, I
should be able to program games.
| | 04:42 | So I went in and I started building out
this whole system, which was collision
| | 04:48 | detection and it was kind
of this fake 3D environment.
| | 04:53 | I programmed then being able to
go upstairs, and multiple levels.
| | 04:58 | And in the middle of it I was like,
this sucks, I hate doing this!
| | 05:02 | I hate making games that are this
big and complicated, and I don't know.
| | 05:08 | So I took the entire platform and
I was like, what's the simplest game I
| | 05:11 | can make out of this?
| | 05:12 | So you can see here.
| | 05:13 | You can actually customize this
entire game, like with the controls and
| | 05:16 | everything, and then you have go to
play it, and you are just standing on a
| | 05:20 | little platform in the middle of nowhere,
and you can even say things and then
| | 05:27 | you fall off and it's game over.
| | 05:32 | (Laughs.)
| | 05:35 | I remember after I launched this
game I got an email that came back and
| | 05:40 | somebody said, "yeah, I played your Atheist game."
| | 05:42 | "It's fun, but how do you win?"
| | Collapse this transcript |
| The show| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | Good morning, sports racers!
| | 00:09 | It's Tuesday, May 16th.
| | 00:10 | Knowledge is back in America.
| | 00:11 | Don't give it an aspirin.
| | 00:12 | Let's let that fever burn.
| | 00:14 | The fact that I noticed in myself
that I was holding on to particular ideas
| | 00:19 | that I thought were particularly
good, but I didn't feel like I had the
| | 00:23 | resources, whether it be time or talent
to execute them in a way that would be
| | 00:31 | worthy of them, right?
| | 00:32 | So you hold on to them and you say
"when I have more time, or after I have
| | 00:36 | learned a little bit more about this,
or when I have a little bit more money,
| | 00:40 | I am going to execute them for real."
| | 00:42 | And then that time just doesn't come.
| | 00:43 | And it becomes for me, a real crutch
towards sloth and towards procrastination.
| | 00:50 | So my New Year's resolution for that
year was to get things out as quickly and
| | 00:55 | faithfully as possible.
| | 00:56 | No matter how bad things get, at least you
have those good ideas that you will get to later.
| | 01:01 | Some people get addicted to that brain
crack, and the longer they wait, the more
| | 01:05 | they convince themselves of how
perfectly that idea should be executed, and
| | 01:08 | they imagine it on a beautiful
platter, with glittering rose petals.
| | 01:12 | Video was just starting again. Exciting.
| | 01:18 | YouTube wasn't around yet really.
| | 01:20 | I mean, I think it existed maybe as a
platform, but didn't get popular until
| | 01:24 | the summer of 2006.
| | 01:26 | I was a little dried up.
| | 01:27 | I didn't really know what I was doing anymore.
| | 01:31 | I felt like I was kind of just making
to make things and I was starting to
| | 01:36 | get really frustrated at the one-off
nature of a lot of the little silly
| | 01:42 | projects that I was doing.
| | 01:43 | And I was like, well, what if-- would
it be cool if you just kind of turned the
| | 01:48 | camera on and the idea is that each
show would be short, and you would go
| | 01:54 | through it with conviction, but it would
be a conversation with the audience, so
| | 01:58 | you would kind of take the
audiences' cues in which direction to go?
| | 02:04 | Normally, I think that the instinct
would be 'this is a show about something.'
| | 02:10 | 'We are going to do something and over the next
blah, blah, blah, we are going to do something.'
| | 02:13 | This is how you interact. This is who I am.
| | 02:16 | And I tried to resist all of that.
| | 02:19 | One of the first shows was the
song, "Sports Racers, Racing, Sports."
| | 02:23 | What is your power move? (singing)
| | 02:25 | Sports racer! Racing! Whoosh! Sports!
| | 02:30 | I call that move Thunder Claw.
| | 02:32 | Collaboratively, the audience
and I discovered what that meant.
| | 02:35 | It basically ended up being that we
were the sports racers and we were in a
| | 02:42 | yearlong internship under
the League of Awesomeness.
| | 02:46 | And I know that sounds absolutely
ridiculous and sort of silly, but
| | 02:50 | it actually had meaning.
| | 02:51 | I mean it really had a very, very
particular and powerful meaning within
| | 02:57 | the show by the end.
| | 02:59 | And so in that way an entire
structure and methodology slowly built up.
| | 03:06 | It's suh-suh-suh
Something from the Forum Day.
| | 03:08 | Crackerjackflashdance writes, "Can we
go through a whole week and not have to
| | 03:11 | hear about Bush or his government please?"
| | 03:13 | Can we just have this week's theme be happy?
| | 03:16 | Crackerjackflashdance, I wish, but
it's a little more complicated than that.
| | 03:19 | I have already decided that this week
I am going to talk about the ethics of
| | 03:22 | abortion as it relates to
the Bush administration.
| | 03:24 | Today we are going to start by delving
into the history of ethics. Ethics...
| | 03:27 | Gurgle gurgle. (Gurling noises.)
| | 03:29 | Duckies! A letter from the League of Awesomeness!
| | 03:31 | It says right here that any comment
read on the show must be fulfilled, as long
| | 03:35 | as it doesn't interfere with
Ride the Fire Eagle Danger Day!
| | 03:37 | Then the theme of this week has to be happy!
| | 03:39 | As punishment for my violation, the LOA
requires that all sports racers dress up
| | 03:43 | their vacuum cleaners
and send in pictures.
| | 03:46 | Oh crap! I feel like it's all my fault!
| | 03:48 | But we are all in this together, right?
| | 03:49 | I can do whatever I feel like doing. (grumbling)
| | 03:54 | You throw in a certain amount of
material that comes from some place within you,
| | 03:59 | but it's not really
intentional or deterministic.
| | 04:06 | So that the meaning of those things
actually becomes created out of the interactions.
| | 04:10 | So when we did photo contests, the
community started, I mean, tons of these
| | 04:16 | projects, and they were constantly going on.
| | 04:18 | I challenged my audience to chess, in
which we played over two months or so.
| | 04:23 | At the end of a whole string of
videos you will hear me saying chess moves.
| | 04:27 | They started self-initiating
projects, where they sent a guy across the
| | 04:31 | country and back, and I think one
month using only other fans of the show for
| | 04:37 | lodging and travel.
| | 04:39 | You know, what was so fun about that was
mashing together all these different things.
| | 04:43 | The participatory side.
| | 04:45 | There was music in it.
| | 04:46 | There was political commentary.
| | 04:49 | There was user contributed intros, and
just like all these different angles that
| | 04:54 | came together, but that's also
what made it so incredibly hard to do.
| | 04:58 | Really, I mean, the actual media
that people associate with the show,
| | 05:03 | the videos, were a veneer on top of
something and that something has been vacated.
| | 05:12 | And so you can sense the veneer, you
can sense that space, but it was something
| | 05:17 | quite different during that time.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Creative process| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:10 | Certainly, "How To Dance Properly" is
one of the first breakout things which I
| | 00:15 | still keep up on the site for the
fun of it, which is just these little
| | 00:19 | Chaplinesque sorts of movies.
| | 00:22 | In the beginning, I actually just
tried to copy myself over and over again.
| | 00:25 | So you will see like these series of
these things that look remarkably similar
| | 00:31 | to "How To Dance Properly", because
to be honest with you, I just had no--
| | 00:34 | This is the lowest point of
my entire career, by the way.
| | 00:38 | "How To Dance Properly 2" basically,
which was a sad, sad thing, where you
| | 00:43 | started trying to copy yourself.
| | 00:44 | It was a sign of not having any idea
what it was that made this thing popular.
| | 00:49 | But as a result of kind of getting
frustrated in trying to copy myself,
| | 00:55 | that's when I started trying all
these different kind of projects.
| | 00:59 | In the beginning, there were these
participatory projects, back before video was
| | 01:05 | around or possible, and
they were just photo contests.
| | 01:08 | Like "When Office Supplies Attack,"
pictures of people getting attacked
| | 01:12 | by office supplies.
| | 01:14 | In total, this site, between Color
Wars, the show, and all of these other
| | 01:18 | breakout links that have depth,
there is probably maybe 300-500 projects,
| | 01:24 | depending on how you count the
sub-projects represented on here.
| | 01:28 | And that's probably just about a
third of the projects that I have done.
| | 01:31 | Most of them get thrown away.
| | 01:33 | For me, creativity hasn't been so
much of a set way of doing or thinking.
| | 01:41 | I mean, I think of like Twyla Tharp,
"The Creative Habit" and books like that,
| | 01:47 | where artists have talked about
creating procedures or routines or concise ways
| | 01:55 | of solving these problems.
| | 01:57 | What I tend to do is constantly try
to flip the framework that I am in.
| | 02:02 | I will follow a particular kind of
process until I become incredibly anxious
| | 02:05 | about the outcome and
then I will try to flip it.
| | 02:08 | If I am doing, for example, a visual
essay, something in the style of this
| | 02:13 | video blog that I did for a year,
like the show that I am doing now
| | 02:16 | sporadically for TIME Magazine.
| | 02:17 | "Improvised explosive devices are used more
and more often and the number of areas across?"
| | 02:21 | What I will do is I will hyper research,
so I will try to tackle a subject, even
| | 02:26 | if it's a three-minute movie, by trying
to research the topic until I feel like
| | 02:31 | I could talk about it for an hour or so.
| | 02:34 | Then, at that point usually I am
incredibly overwhelmed, because you don't really--
| | 02:40 | I don't find that I find
that little sinew that flows through the
| | 02:45 | information without referring
to all the information around it.
| | 02:48 | So it seems like a contextual
impossibility of reducing information down.
| | 02:52 | So at that point usually when I hit
that wall, I switch back and I refer and
| | 02:58 | I look purely at how it makes me feel.
| | 03:00 | Like what the feeling of
being overwhelmed by this data is.
| | 03:04 | So if it's on Afghanistan, you can say
wow, I am just amazed how little I know
| | 03:09 | about this and as an American, with
troops committed over there, that kind of
| | 03:13 | gives me a framework to move forward.
| | 03:16 | Like now that framework is outside of
the research framework. It really has to
| | 03:19 | do with the emotional process behind it.
| | 03:23 | My voice is giving out and I have gone
over time, but I wanted to say that I
| | 03:26 | put this video together to try to
visually connect with a war that I feel
| | 03:29 | pretty disconnected from.
| | 03:31 | I started out wanting to write an
opinion piece, but pretty soon I realized that
| | 03:34 | my opinions of what should be going on
have been interfering with my ability to
| | 03:38 | try to understand what has been going on.
| | 03:42 | It's easy for me to forget the casual,
offhand way that a lot of the stuff that
| | 03:48 | I have done has been made.
| | 03:52 | What I have to watch out for quite a
bit is the trick, the little voice in the
| | 03:59 | back of my head that says that
I can actually control this stuff.
| | 04:03 | You should be good at this stuff, and
you should be able to control it, and
| | 04:07 | you should be able to plan it, and you
should be able to come up with these things
| | 04:10 | and execute them exactly
as you would want them done.
| | 04:16 | It's a very dangerous position to be in,
because I, for myself anyways, I am
| | 04:24 | wearing away from precisely the kind
of attitude about the world that I think
| | 04:29 | has brought me the most joy, and
ultimately is the most successful in kind of
| | 04:34 | conveying an attitude, a spirit in work.
| | 04:40 | So that's the other part, is
constantly reminding myself to step back,
| | 04:47 | not plan as much, don't overwork things,
and find ways to almost do less, do less
| | 04:58 | in the process.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Understanding audience awareness| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | I think this is common knowledge at
this point, but the idea that more people
| | 00:13 | are publishing in the broadest
sense than have ever published.
| | 00:18 | So just the act of creating something and
then externalizing it for unknown audiences.
| | 00:25 | There is something in the creative
process when you create something and
| | 00:32 | all of a sudden realize that it's going
to be consumed by someone else and not
| | 00:37 | even in your presence, right?
| | 00:40 | In the creative process, all of a
sudden you sort of externalize the objects.
| | 00:43 | You see it outside of yourself and you
also start imagining how other people
| | 00:48 | are going to see it.
| | 00:49 | That kind of moment, and I call that
the audience awareness moment, is really
| | 00:55 | embedded in the creative process now,
for people who write blogs, for people
| | 00:59 | who write comments.
| | 01:00 | But the problem is that I think
that there are a couple of things.
| | 01:04 | One is it's a very, very complicated
process, where you are using your internal
| | 01:11 | personas or homunculi.
| | 01:14 | These like little tiny
representations of the outside world, because
| | 01:18 | it's actually you looking at the object.
| | 01:20 | It's not somebody else looking at
the object, but it's your impression of
| | 01:24 | somebody else looking at the objects.
| | 01:25 | You know, to some extent you have to
become very aware of how you are forming
| | 01:29 | all those little parts of yourself.
| | 01:31 | Like, who is the evil guy that hates
your work inside of your own head and
| | 01:35 | where does he come from?
| | 01:36 | What kind of experiences was the
formation of that person born out of?
| | 01:40 | And the other thing which I find
interesting about this is that the audience as
| | 01:46 | a whole is in varying kind of stages.
| | 01:51 | Not the audience, but people as a whole,
that are participating in this culture,
| | 01:55 | are at various stages of awareness of audience.
| | 01:57 | So some of them are sort
of speaking to the world.
| | 02:02 | Whenever they write something, it's
sort of like "dear world, this is how I
| | 02:05 | think about something."
| | 02:06 | And some of them speak very
particularly to the author, as if they are in a
| | 02:11 | closed room with that person.
| | 02:13 | And some people speak to people just
like them, as if the people that read
| | 02:19 | it are just like them.
| | 02:21 | There is a certain chaos that comes
out of that, that comes out of these
| | 02:26 | different expectations of
what the audience actually is.
| | 02:29 | And you can see it when you run any
kind of participatory project or experience
| | 02:34 | or have a comments section.
| | 02:36 | You see these kind of overlying
expectations about who people are talking to.
| | 02:43 | It's an incredibly important
facet of this emerging world and of
| | 02:49 | participation as a whole, when
we start really thinking about mass
| | 02:54 | participatory media experiences.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Color wars| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:10 | One thing in creating
participatory projects is that there are
| | 00:15 | separate challenges.
| | 00:16 | Sometimes you can tune a project
towards having a very high participation rate,
| | 00:25 | so you can make things that are super,
super fun to do and try to really delve
| | 00:29 | down on that experience and try to get
lots and lots of people to participate.
| | 00:34 | Another challenge is to get people to
participate in the making of something
| | 00:40 | that a wider audience can enjoy.
| | 00:44 | Earlier 2008, Twitter was just
starting to bubble up a little bit.
| | 00:49 | It wasn't like massive.
| | 00:51 | It got to the point where I had been
receiving enough invites to it and
| | 00:57 | it started popping up on the news, where
I thought it would be good to check it out.
| | 01:03 | So I went on and somebody had
already reserved my username.
| | 01:07 | So I raised a huge stink with the
guys at Twitter, and at that point they
| | 01:12 | weren't so big that they would ignore me.
| | 01:16 | I kind of felt bad that I had raised
such a big stink and wasn't really planning
| | 01:21 | on doing anything with the account.
| | 01:23 | So Color Wars in the end, I started
it by testing out the same kind of
| | 01:33 | process that I used in the show, which was to
say, let's try to invent what this is together.
| | 01:41 | So I started it by saying,
I am on the Blue team.
| | 01:44 | What team are you on?
| | 01:45 | Color Wars are coming.
| | 01:47 | And I think in 24 hours, 10,000
people had self-selected on the teams.
| | 01:51 | And I didn't have any idea of
what was going to happen next. (laughs)
| | 01:57 | So I talked to-- I kind of put out the
request to see if someone would help.
| | 02:03 | And Erik Kastner was one of the first
people to reply and we just started kind
| | 02:11 | of brainstorming about what you
could do with this general idea.
| | 02:15 | There was a little bit of a background
that I was working with, which was I was
| | 02:22 | kind of convinced that there were
organizational principles for groups that
| | 02:27 | could transcend platforms.
| | 02:29 | You would have these roaming
affiliations and the hope was that we would have
| | 02:33 | these teams, the Red team, the Green
team, the Blue team, and we would have
| | 02:38 | these contests all over the web.
| | 02:40 | And it didn't matter where the contest was.
| | 02:42 | You would leave traces of the fact
that it was the Red team that did it.
| | 02:45 | So the idea that we could
have a contest in Flicker.
| | 02:48 | As long as it was tagged Red team, we would
know and we could somehow mine that data.
| | 02:52 | So Color Wars became
conceptually this idea of a completely
| | 02:59 | liberated Internet-wide game.
| | 03:02 | It never really completely got
liberated, but we did things like we ended up
| | 03:06 | playing a 2,000 person game of
rocks, papers, scissors in Flicker.
| | 03:11 | We created a thing that auto-
generated bingo cards and you could DM, direct
| | 03:17 | message, a Twitter account and
it would send you a bingo card.
| | 03:20 | So you get a number of bingo cards and
then for a particular hour we all played
| | 03:24 | bingo, on a Thursday.
| | 03:26 | And I was like calling the numbers out,
the letters out in Twitter, and then if
| | 03:32 | you got a bingo, you had to send the
word bingo to this account and it would
| | 03:40 | auto-check your card to see
if it was an actual bingo.
| | 03:42 | Probably the most successful thing
in Color Wars was Young Me / Now Me.
| | 03:46 | The challenge was to get people to share images.
| | 03:51 | It's very hard to get people to just
take snapshots of themselves and post them,
| | 03:56 | but it's actually pretty
easy to get people to show pictures of
| | 03:59 | themselves as kids.
| | 04:01 | So that was the first stage of the process
was getting people to show childhood photos.
| | 04:05 | I showed mine and a lot of people responded.
| | 04:07 | And then the next stage of the
project was getting people to restage those
| | 04:12 | children's photos as adults,
which kind of frames it really well.
| | 04:16 | And that ended up being a really
wonderful series of photos that came back.
| | 04:22 | One of the cool things was in Color
Wars is that companies came and sponsored
| | 04:28 | particular challenges.
| | 04:29 | So they provided-- We had one thing,
which was a Google Street View Scavenger Hunt,
[00:04:37.1]
for things like the loneliest person
and all these different sort of odd categories.
| | 04:42 | The prizes were roundtrip tickets on JetBlue.
| | 04:45 | So we could have-- I think it
could have turned into something fairly
| | 04:51 | interesting with this idea of having
corporate sponsors come in and facilitate
| | 04:59 | game play, but it's just sort of a
fundamentally different challenge to build
| | 05:05 | something like that than it is to
explore and experiment and play and have fun.
| | 05:12 | And as the brainstorming was going on
for the second round of Color Wars,
| | 05:18 | it kind of became apparent to me anyways that
it just wasn't as interesting to try that.
| | 05:27 | Especially what Twitter had become.
| | 05:28 | It was way more popular.
| | 05:33 | Twitter had started really
trying to attract famous people.
| | 05:38 | It wasn't ripe for the
same kind of exploration.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Understanding audience interaction| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | I will sometimes refer to my audience as if
it's a singular thing, but of course it isn't.
| | 00:16 | I mean certainly there is no unified body.
| | 00:19 | There's a huge variety of personalities
and intentions and all sorts of things.
| | 00:24 | But in some way, there is a part of me
that wants to think of it that way,
| | 00:32 | that wants to think of an audience a
particular way and gets angry at the audience.
| | 00:37 | It doesn't get angry at individuals,
but it sort of feels like I am having a
| | 00:46 | conversation with someone.
| | 00:49 | But these different personas poke their
head out usually while I am crafting a
| | 00:58 | response to something or right at
the final stages of making a piece.
| | 01:02 | And it's not like I give the entire
audience a personality, but I bounce
| | 01:06 | around in my mind how these different kind of,
I don't know, representatives of the audience.
| | 01:13 | Let's say that there's almost like a
little jury in my mind and there is the
| | 01:17 | person who absolutely adores whatever
I do regardless, and that person I don't
| | 01:24 | have very much time for just
because I don't trust them inherently.
| | 01:27 | I feel like they must be wrong.
| | 01:29 | They must be terribly misguided in some way.
| | 01:31 | And then there are of course the people
that say that they just absolutely hate
| | 01:37 | everything that I do,
but they seem to always be there.
| | 01:41 | So I have a very special relationship
with that sort of person, because I am
| | 01:45 | actually kind of aligned
with that kind of a person.
| | 01:48 | Because secretly that's sort of like
all my insecurities that keep on cropping
| | 01:52 | up throughout my life, but for
some reason I keep doing this work.
| | 01:58 | Yeah, so I think there's kind of like a
host of personalities and I think that
| | 02:02 | the challenge is to not allow those
voices to dominate and to be very aware
| | 02:09 | that they exist and where they
come from and really allow the actual
| | 02:13 | interactions with the audience to
dictate how the work proceeds and how your
| | 02:21 | actual reaction is going to be.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Virtual walks with Google Street View| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:09 | So this year I am dividing my
life into these 35 day chunks.
| | 00:15 | And the idea is, is that for the first
couple of hours of the day I am going to
| | 00:23 | sort of do a regular creative process,
just carve some time, and this initial
| | 00:30 | chunk has been focused on writing.
| | 00:33 | So I write for two hours in the
morning every day, and what I have been
| | 00:37 | specifically focused on is memory and
trying to really encapsulate memory.
| | 00:42 | And one of the things that I found
was that I sort of see the world in
| | 00:46 | vignettes, in these little
memory moments in vignettes.
| | 00:50 | So after having really exhausted a lot
of those vignettes and really trying to
| | 00:54 | describe them in incredible detail, what I
started doing was taking walks in my mind.
| | 01:01 | Instead of like focusing on things that
I remembered specifically, I would just
| | 01:04 | walk through places that I remembered.
| | 01:07 | And through those walks I started
remembering all sorts of other stuff that I
| | 01:12 | wouldn't-- If you said, think of a
memory that you had when you were a child,
| | 01:16 | you go to very specific things.
| | 01:18 | If you start walking around that
environment, all of a sudden all this
| | 01:20 | other stuff is triggered.
| | 01:21 | So what I tried to do was go into
Google and use their Street View to
| | 01:28 | facilitate that experience.
| | 01:30 | And what I found was that in one
particular walk, like this one right here,
| | 01:36 | which is out of my house and we are
going to go over to the side here and just
| | 01:44 | walk to my bus stop.
| | 01:48 | What I found was just taking this walk
brought back all these kinds of memories
| | 01:53 | of the neighbors and the paper route
that I had, and also the kind of stillness
| | 01:58 | that this space had.
| | 01:59 | And it's almost a boredom, which is an
amazing feature of youth that you tend
| | 02:06 | to forget, but there was so much
stillness and there's a stillness that is hard
| | 02:10 | to access as an adult, and I have a lot of
nostalgia for that kind of stillness and boredom now.
| | 02:16 | And so what I am doing right now is
asking people to take these walks and to
| | 02:24 | write me, and that's right here.
| | 02:29 | Right there is where I
used to wait for the bus stop.
| | 02:31 | And it's interesting because this
view doesn't have that much emotional
| | 02:35 | connection for me, but if I stand here
in this spot and whip the camera around
| | 02:41 | at this little patch, right here,
it was like a little no man's land.
| | 02:46 | It's just brush, but I definitely
stared at this a lot when I was a kid and
| | 02:51 | it has this strange sort of meaning to me,
because it's this sort of dense unknown
| | 02:58 | and definitely triggered a
lot of like stuff around there.
| | 03:01 | So I am asking other people to take
walks that they remember from their
| | 03:05 | childhood and then to write
me about their experience.
| | 03:08 | I am really interested in how they
experience what happened and I ask them to
| | 03:14 | kind of just reflect on that and I just--
There was a line in here that I just
| | 03:18 | absolutely loved about the
experience of using Google Street View.
| | 03:24 | It definitely made me feel nostalgic
and remember some of the old friends
| | 03:28 | from that time of my life, but it's
really strange to me how egocentric I
| | 03:32 | must have been to have made those
memories completely about my experience,
| | 03:35 | and I didn't even remember the other
person or people who I shared such a
| | 03:38 | vivid moment with me.
| | 03:40 | I suppose that the location
is still at my fingertips.
| | 03:43 | I could go there any time, but there is
something about the way it was pressed
| | 03:45 | into my memory that makes me not
want to go back there and see it from my
| | 03:49 | tainted adult perspective.
| | 03:52 | It's like watching "Evil Dead" when I
was 13 and thinking it was cool and scary
| | 03:56 | and having it shape and mold the
expectations and ideas about horror movies in
| | 04:00 | the future, but then going back and
watching it a second time when I was 25 and
| | 04:04 | thinking, wow, I thought this was scary?
| | 04:08 | I love that kind of reflection.
| | 04:10 | It's a really poignant observation, and
it's something-- It's a level of depth
| | 04:24 | about this kind of experience that of
course I wouldn't have had on my own.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Understanding the humanity of audiences| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:10 | In traditional media and in traditional
advertising marketing, certainly people
| | 00:15 | say that they have audience in mind
when they create work, but I wonder what
| | 00:19 | kind of audience that is and where
those notions of audience come from.
| | 00:23 | So the humanity of the audience gets
lost to some extent, right, when you can
| | 00:30 | rely on certain kind of patterns and
knowing that people in a particular age
| | 00:33 | category like 'cars and
guns' or that sort of thing.
| | 00:38 | So to that extent, certainly I'm not
thinking about those types of features of
| | 00:46 | audience but rather trying to really
focus on some of the more subtle emotions
| | 00:55 | that people feel on a day-to-day
basis and using a connection with those
| | 00:59 | emotions as a vehicle for social interaction.
| | 01:03 | Sometimes when I get emails, and I
get a fair amount of emails requesting
| | 01:08 | certain kinds of media or talking about
particular experiences that people have
| | 01:13 | and seeing whether I can
generate media off of that.
| | 01:15 | And one was when someone had said that
his daughter was having a lot of trouble
| | 01:22 | sleeping at night because she was
scared of the dark, and so I wrote a song
| | 01:30 | which was meant to be a mantra that
one sings to oneself when you're scared.
| | 01:35 | "This is the song that I sing
when I'm scared of something."
| | 01:38 | "I don't know why but it helps me get over it."
| | 01:43 | "The words of the song just move me
along and somehow I get over it."
| | 01:50 | "At least I don't suck at life."
| | 01:54 | "I keep on trying despite."
| | 01:58 | "At least I don't suck at life."
| | 02:01 | "I keep on trying despite."
| | 02:05 | "This is the song that I sing
when I'm scared of something."
| | 02:09 | All those little sort of minute things
have the potential to be resonant and
| | 02:15 | what I mean by resonant is that you can
all of a sudden find that lots of people
| | 02:19 | out there respond to that very, very
small gesture and want to share it, want to
| | 02:25 | talk about it, want to even say "me too."
| | 02:28 | From the social resonance or emotional
resonance standpoint, I definitely am
| | 02:33 | constantly kind of like surveying the
way that I react to the world and trying
| | 02:38 | to challenge myself to find small
moments where I am questioning something or
| | 02:42 | startled by something.
| | 02:45 | In a way that I normally would just
gloss over and say, well wait a second,
| | 02:49 | is this something that
nobody's talking about it?
| | 02:51 | But is actually like a real universal
feature of life and cannot be commented on
| | 02:56 | in a work to some extent?
| | 02:57 | And I think the major outcome from
brands really starting to think of their
| | 03:03 | consumer base as actual human beings,
on an individual basis rather than
| | 03:08 | demographic categories is that it's
going to make them better social citizens.
| | 03:12 | It's going to make part of this,
part of consumerism a little bit more
| | 03:19 | ethically responsible.
| | 03:21 | That's my hope anyways.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Speaking at live events| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:09 | Making things actually
does give me a lot of joy.
| | 00:10 | It's the process of creation that
keeps sort of a bubble and a half above
| | 00:14 | perpetual anxiety in my life, and it's
that feeling of being about 80% complete
| | 00:19 | on a project where you know you still
have something to do but it's not finished
| | 00:23 | and you are not starting something.
| | 00:26 | That really fills my entire life, and
so what I've done is I started getting
| | 00:31 | interested in creating online social
spaces to share that feeling with people
| | 00:36 | who don't consider themselves artists.
| | 00:37 | We are in a culture of guru-ship.
| | 00:40 | It's so hard to use some software
because you know it's unapproachable.
| | 00:44 | People feel like they have to read the manual.
| | 00:46 | So I try to create these very
minimal activities that allow people to
| | 00:53 | express themselves and hopefully?
| | 00:56 | (Music playing from stage.)
| | 01:00 | Whoa, I am like on the page,
| | 01:04 | but it doesn't exists, it's like.
| | 01:07 | (Laughter from audience.)
| | 01:09 | Seriously though, try to create
meaningful environments for people to
| | 01:15 | express themselves.
| | 01:17 | Here I created a contest called "When
Office Supplies Attack," which I think
| | 01:22 | really resonated with the working population...
| | 01:26 | Certainly something like Ted.
| | 01:29 | It's an incredible group of people and
the types of talks that are being given.
| | 01:34 | Also, even when someone isn't
particularly great speaker, what they are talking
| | 01:41 | about is like really important.
| | 01:43 | Live presentation, working in a
theater or in a room or in a conference room,
| | 01:48 | it doesn't matter, but that it is a little
bit of a lost technique and that there
| | 01:52 | is a lot to be learned from that
kind of interaction for me particularly.
| | 02:02 | I definitely go after things that I am
afraid of and I had been aware of certain
| | 02:08 | kinds of stage fright that
I have had over the years.
| | 02:12 | You know I played in a band for a while
so I was pretty comfortable behind the
| | 02:16 | wall of a microphone and loud music.
| | 02:19 | That is you are hiding to some degree on
stage when you have all that stuff going on.
| | 02:25 | There is a really wonderful flow that
you can get into when you have prepared
| | 02:32 | yourself really well.
| | 02:34 | And I think that there is-- I mean it
applies in a broader sense I think to every craft.
| | 02:41 | Which is if you just spend a lot of
time rehearsing what you want to say, even
| | 02:47 | the kind of nuanced ways that you want
to say it, and really just spend a lot of
| | 02:51 | time with the material, what that
allows you is to have a presence of mind
| | 02:56 | wherever you are to take advantage of
whatever is unique in that scenario.
| | 03:01 | So that's the thing that I like
absolutely love about doing live work is getting
| | 03:08 | to a point where you know the
material is super ingrained with me.
| | 03:12 | I do a lot of work with slides.
| | 03:14 | So I really like a very rich media experience.
| | 03:17 | That's really fun for me is having lots
of slides even to the point where they
| | 03:21 | are overwhelming, like I am not even
really showing them for the content anyone.
| | 03:26 | It's sort of this barrage of
imagery that is going on behind me.
| | 03:32 | But while I am performing, if I really
have it down, there is this awesome flow
| | 03:37 | that starts happening where I
kind of know what I am about to say.
| | 03:41 | I am already thinking about it as I am
talking but I am also kind of scanning the room.
| | 03:45 | And if something unusual happens,
if a sound happens, if something
| | 03:48 | distracting happens, if a speaker
right before me said something interesting,
| | 03:54 | or if there's something in the news,
there's this wonderful moment where you
| | 03:58 | can integrate stuff on the fly.
| | 04:00 | And I think in work, just in any kind
of work, that there is something that I
| | 04:07 | learned about over-
preparation from doing live gigs.
| | 04:12 | I really strive for moments where
because I'm over-prepared I am able to
| | 04:19 | capitalize on some kind of connection or
moment that I would never have found if
| | 04:25 | I was struggling through that performance.
| | 04:30 | You know performance in any sort of
sense of the word, whether it's a project,
| | 04:35 | a two month project, or a half hour live show.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Understanding audience participation| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:07 | Twitter is certainly the closest thing
to real time out there now and Twitter
| | 00:14 | has changed the participatory
experience quite a bit for me.
| | 00:19 | So I mean now I have an expectation
that if I want to try something out, I can
| | 00:24 | try something out that half hour.
| | 00:26 | A lot of times, if I'm working on a
project, I'll test it first with a
| | 00:30 | smaller group of people.
| | 00:31 | I'll just say, "I want to try
something out, will somebody help me?"
| | 00:36 | And I'll just-- somebody responds and
usually they do it within the first minute.
| | 00:41 | On Twitter, I ask people to send me
their-- literally this is all I said.
| | 00:45 | I was like "I want to try a new project."
| | 00:49 | "Please send me your Facebook username
and password" and I got like 300 in half
| | 00:55 | an hour and I had to shut down that request
because that was kind of overwhelming but.
| | 01:01 | And that kind of like speaks to the
trust I think because we've done a lot of
| | 01:07 | projects together over the years.
| | 01:09 | For anyone that's interested in
engendering participation or incorporating some
| | 01:17 | level of participation into the work
they do, whether they're advertisers,
| | 01:21 | marketers or artists or whatever, have
to come to a sort of an understanding
| | 01:27 | about the energy levels that
exist in audiences as a whole.
| | 01:32 | Getting someone to do something very
small, getting someone to participate in
| | 01:36 | the smallest way is a skill and
it has to be worked on for a while.
| | 01:42 | And you find that you can get a lot
more of people to do something that's very
| | 01:47 | small, gestural, just voting on something.
| | 01:52 | You can also get people to do
things that are of lower risk.
| | 01:56 | You're not only establishing trust.
| | 01:57 | You're not only
establishing some kind of an identity.
| | 02:01 | You're also establishing a series of
idioms, so you're establishing the actual
| | 02:08 | mechanics of how you're going
to do future things together.
| | 02:11 | So it's kind of you're going
to have short hands for things.
| | 02:14 | I mean like so we're going to do
something very similar to x project or even if
| | 02:20 | you just have a project that requires
uploading and cropping a photo, obviously
| | 02:27 | it's going to be better if you've
done a project before that has required
| | 02:30 | uploading a photo or
separately cropping a photo.
| | 02:33 | Just getting people used to all these
different little things because a lot of
| | 02:37 | people-- The Web is a widely varied
experience, and you can't rely on the idea
| | 02:45 | that people are going to know how to
do even the most simple basic things.
| | 02:50 | Because a lot of times, it requires
like metaphor shifts, a completely
| | 02:54 | different frames of reference than
you're used to as the creator, right?
| | 02:57 | I mean as a person who's making this stuff.
| | Collapse this transcript |
| Tools & collaboration| 00:00 | (Music playing.)
| | 00:08 | There's a whole range of projects
that I do now where I just don't have the
| | 00:13 | specialized knowledge and realistically,
it would be ridiculous for me to try
| | 00:19 | to learn it on my own.
| | 00:22 | And not only that but the pool of
labor or interested people out there is
| | 00:28 | so much larger now.
| | 00:30 | So, if I want to do a project that
involves something having to do with sound,
| | 00:36 | like I did this project where I opened
up a hotline for people to call in with
| | 00:40 | emotional pain and then instead of
doing this next step which is to take those
| | 00:45 | voice mails and then cut them up into
little chunks of sound that DJs could use,
| | 00:50 | I just put out a notice on Twitter and
I asked whether there were DJs that were
| | 00:54 | interested in working on this project with me.
| | 00:57 | And there were plenty, one in
particular who did a lion's share of the work and
| | 01:01 | it usually turns out that way that
there's one person who you really connect
| | 01:05 | with or that connects with
the work that you're doing.
| | 01:07 | It's the same thing especially in programming.
| | 01:12 | I've taught myself pretty much
everything that I know how to do, but there's a
| | 01:17 | point at which you have to start asking
yourself whether it's worth the time to
| | 01:25 | continue your quest to
do everything by yourself.
| | 01:30 | And I found that in order to really
facilitate fun, engaging creativity in the
| | 01:39 | world of programming, you have to find
people who are super good at it and so
| | 01:42 | prepared that their minds can be split
between the fun, creative part and
| | 01:47 | the stuff that they're just good at.
| | 01:49 | In my case, I, and I think a lot of
people out there that are my age and older,
| | 01:55 | lived through this time where there was
this massive proliferation in toolsets.
| | 02:00 | There was new stuff, new tools popping up
and new opportunities to use those tools.
| | 02:04 | You just couldn't become an expert in
something and you also had to try to
| | 02:08 | gain your confidence about yourself
from a different set of rules than the
| | 02:13 | "I'm an expert" rule set.
| | 02:14 | So there was a time where I would
have said, the best thing that you can
| | 02:18 | possibly do is be tool agnostic.
| | 02:23 | Like, don't care what the tool is.
| | 02:25 | You want an end result and you find the
tool that's appropriate and who cares if
| | 02:30 | you're good at it or not?
| | 02:31 | Just open the damn box
and start fiddling around.
| | 02:36 | I don't know how successful you're
going to be anymore because the tools are
| | 02:42 | a lot more expensive.
| | 02:44 | It's not-- there isn't freeware
everywhere as there used to be and it's not
| | 02:50 | as easy to crack a lot of the licenses.
| | 02:54 | So, I think that the next sort of
phase is it has to do with collaboration.
| | 03:00 | It has to do with finding people that
embody those specialized skill sets and
| | 03:04 | I think that that social aspect of becoming a
lot more fluent in the dynamics of collaboration.
| | 03:12 | And not just within an organization but
out into the world, out into the world
| | 03:17 | of hiring people that you never meet,
is going to become very important.
| | 03:23 | And certainly that's what I'm trying to
do a lot more of, is recognizing that my
| | 03:30 | exuberance has its limits and that I just can't.
| | 03:37 | There's a whole range of experience that
I can't have as an individual that I am
| | 03:42 | going to have to reach out for.
| | Collapse this transcript |
|
|
